In the latest edition of my printed guide, The Butcher Shop is a three star restaurant – three stars being the highest accolade achievable. Giving a steakhouse three stars is also evidence that an establishment does not have to cook modern French to be at the top of the game. There’s also a trattoria in the new guide with three. In the guide, restaurants are rated within their price categories, which is an egalatarian way to compare, and gives more modest looking places, where the money is spent mostly on the plate, a chance to compete.
In my experience, Butcher Shop has always delivered the goods. Great steak, professional service, a memorable and entertaining environment, and the famously expensive but also fantastic wine list. One of my regular contributors, David, recently had this experience at Butcher Shop. Now, I know that this establishment has a reputation for large prices, but R75 for an ordinary prawn – is this the current rate? I’ll have to do some homework. And will we diners ever feel comfortable with SQ prices?
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32 Comments
I think this is a good topic. It seems to me that restaurants bank on us being too embarrassed to ask the prices of SQ items and specials. At Paranga, the line fish on the menu was reasonably priced at about R85, but the line fish special was dearer at about R135. No mention is made of this substantial disparity when they tell you the specials. It's refreshing when a restaurant tells you the prices of the specials as they describe them.
I think people are more willing to ask the prices for SQ items, because there is no frame of reference, but still, ask for more than one or 2 prices and see how it makes you feel. I think it should also be illegal to not have SQ items written somewhere so that the price remains consistent for all patrons. I had friends order the seafood platter at Tuscany Beach and were charged around R500 having not asked the price. In that same week I was there with friends who ordered the same thing and the price was R300 when they asked before ordering.
[posted this on Dave's blog too] On a similar note, ordering a glass of the house wine has become a dangerous exercise. I ordered a glass of red at The Loading Bay the other night, R46 when the bill came. Now I don't have a problem with paying R46 for a glass of wine, I do so at Balducci's regularly, but I have a list of wines to choose from and I'm usually spoiling myself with something particularly nice.
To serve a glass of wine for causal consumption and charge those prices is robbery. These places must enjoy the few extra Rands they make for now, because in the long run it's going to cost them patronage.
As a general rule in all the cases above, the waiters should be forthcoming if the pricing is out of the ordinary.
SQ items have their purpose – if any one feels too embarresed to ask the price – then perhaps they should eat some thing else. But if you want to show your guests that price dontmatter, then dont let the price matter. Who buys without knowing the price of the goods being purchaced – sounds like rubbish to me.
We are all too quick to point SA out as poor service providers – I dont agree. Remember,this site is opinions, thats all -no fact.
I don't mind SQ as it has a legitimate reason for being when dealing with seasonal and scarce product. But it should never be used as an excuse to gouge the consumer – which often seems to be the case in SA. Once at a Codfather I ordered some exotic fish and the waiter discreetly brought the by-weight price to me to check if I was happy – I enjoyed the politeness of this act.
yes, discretion is a key element. A lot of the time, there's a reason you didn't ask the price in the first place.
Another example of upselling which I find annoying is the garlic rolls at Pigalle (let's not mention that they refuse to supply tap water, but I'm not going to bring that up because I'll be accused of being parsimonious), they are delicious but enormous. If you ate a whole one, you wouldn't need dinner for a week. But they will happily tell everyone at a table of 8 to have one when 3 or 4 would more than suffice. The price is irrelevant, although they are not cheap.
A polite mention of the price while reading back the order would work. This felt like deliberate misleading though. SQ should be reserved for the unusual, seasonal or extremely variable price. It is NOT a substitute for expensive or rip-off. If you have a high priced item, celebrate it. It better be worth it though
Another point on this topic… the Consumer Protection Bill which is soon to come into effect will require all goods for sale to display a price. Vida e Cafe have acknowldged that they will have to add prices to their board menu.
How does this affect restaurants with SQ items and specials? Are they exempted or will we see the end of this issue thanks to legal requirements?
It would be nice to have a comment from someone who is knowledgeable on the finer points of the consumer protection bill.
I think I'll post this question on my website too and see if between us we can flush out someone who knows something.
I'll also try to find some legal opinion. In the meanwhile, here's another account (also featuring the dangerous prawn…)
http://tinyurl.com/6xtnqr
What a coincidence, I was just about to post the link to that article and another similar one on the consumer protection bill
http://www.iol.co.za/general/other/lol_containe...
oops I am guilty of no menu @ Origin Coffee Roasting. Our beans have pricing, but not our drinks. Will need to fix asap, probably go the table menu route though?
I find it ironic that i went to origin today and was charged R40 for two flat whites..that is R20 a coffee (this must be the most expensive that I have paid anywhere in South Africa) and as you so rightly say you do not display the price yet complain about others who do the same.
Hi JJ see my comment above, the day before yours. We WILL have prices on display ASAP. I apologise openly.
By the way, our flat whites are R18 each and not R20. Can you please check your bill (if possible, and revert to me please). Origin is definitely not the most expensive place for coffee in South Africa (perhaps we should be? he asks tongue firmly in cheek). We are at a premium to the average though.
I was in a rush told one of the waiters at origin that i wanted the bill. Gave him R100 and got R60 back no receipt. Maybe …who knows..Christmas bonus? (PS 1kg coffee = 120 coffees, take mess 100 coffees = R1800 per kilo not bad)
Hi JJ, I hope you can point out my self bonus awarding, soon to be ex-waiter to me? BTW we use ~ 18g of coffee per double shot (all our R18 flat whites are doubles, our standard) with wastage that equates to 50 doubles / kg. Please acknowledge that a double flat white has about 150mls of milk in it. 250mls- 60 mls and the milk stretches, with wastage considered, about 20%. Our machine is a R130,000 Synesso Syncra machine. Please also allow some cost for maintenance and cleaning, the fact that we toss away mediocre cups, our rental, interest payments, insurance, wages etc…
ORIGIN: Overdue concept in CT (commonplace in US supermarkets) , great tasting coffee, poor taste in tongue and cheek price threats when you are so gdmn pricey already, in the same breath as ducking behind running expenses and investment costs as an excuse for exorbitance? Please… Your rentals /Squ are cheaper than some other locations in CT, that have bigger setup, machinery costs.
Coffee ( cuppa) has a massive markup. Correct me, R18 a coffee is more then a 600% raw material markup according to your worst scenario allowances. You having been in the food business, known that this is to quote JJ “not bad”
Whether you are the most or the fourths most expensive, is pedantic.
Why so expensive? Because you can! Its a niche, unique, great but elitist, and in comparison not great value.
We enjoy it (it would be more often) we pay it, we feel fleeced, and will do it again!
Following both Dax and RR restaurant reviews for their honesty , IMO poor value has a tendency to taint if not taste then experience in some way or other.
So,you have good reason thus far, to be sneaky with your price displays.
Your place sir is a treat, but your prices and justifications are cheeky, and opportunistic.
In response to AMX, I would like to suggest that, in food as in wine, the best of breed often charge prices that are not strictly accountable to input costs, etc. Food and wine, and coffee, are no more guilty of this than any luxury goods – when last did we buy a high-end branded cologne where the price made “sense”? There is a surcharge for all kinds of intangibles – in the end we decide whether the product is still desirable. Regarding coffee, in a country where a very good cup is not easily found, I accept that I will pay a premium for a high grade coffee – and I still consider this to be good value, since R18 is not very far from the typical price of a really poor coffee.
Back to the topic of upselling. Some friends of mine went to the Roundhouse for dinner the other night and had the tasting menu. They enjoyed the meal, despite the price (about R600 each – I think), and loved the venue. However, the thing they remember the most about the evening was being conned into ordering a glass of champagne each on arrival (without having seen the menu).
They were under the impression that the champagne was complimentary but finding out it wasn’t complimentary was not what annoyed them. Being charged R70 per glass annoyed them. They were offered a choice between 2 Graham Becks, they don’t remember which they were offered or selected, but the Brut is currently R69.90 at Makro and the Blanc de Blanc is R159. So they paid for the bottle at least once, maybe twice.
Cheeky, I’d say.
Dear Dax,
We always enjoy feedback from the Guests regarding the Restaurant and find this knowledge integral in improving our service to Guests. The comment is noted and will be addressed. I must however make mention that considering the location of the venue, most of our Guests enjoy taking in the sunset prior to sitting down for their meal. For us, there could be no better aperitif than a glass of bubbly to do so. We quite often recommend bubbly as a predecessor to the dining experience. In this instance, we recommended Graham Beck. We serve Graham Beck Brut, Graham Beck Blanc de Blancs and Graham Beck Demi Sec and various vintages of Graham Beck. All of these wines are intrinsically different in taste. The Blanc de Blancs does come in at almost double the price compared to the Brut. This is a vintage MCC, and the option of both were given to the Guests. Our wine prices, compared to any other Restaurant are incredibly reasonable and our mark up rather low. We serve only 4 glasses out of a bottle of MCC, considering the size of the glasses, and hence at R38 per glass of Graham Beck Brut, it is good value. We do not attempt to rush the bill with this offer, rather to enhance the experience. MCC is a palate cleanser as well as a brilliant aperitif prior to the meal.
The Guests on this occasion ordered the Blanc de Blancs which carries a greater price tag. We will however take this into account and look at changing the approach of the offer, as to make it more clear to the Guests!
Kindest Regards,
Dale den Dulk
Dax, I see you have been answered in full by both owners. The subject of wine mark-ups has long been a bugbear of mine. It irritates me that places with no wine knowledge simply use wine to generate high mark-ups – 300% is not uncommon. And this for a product they can order one day and sell the next. But at the same time I think that The Roundhouse does offer fair value in their prices, their range (including vintage wines), their attention to detail and their knowledge.
Dear Dax
The idea of a glass of bubbly on the lawn overlooking one of the finest settings that Cape Town has to offer is not one that is set to drive our GP!!! In fact it is more than a well known fact that bubbly is the ultimate aperitif, it relaxes, settles, enhances the taste buds and sets the mood for a multi coursed dinning experience. The bubbly enhances all senses and sharpens the apetite tremendously. A complimentary glass of bubbly on arrival, well that would mean as you say that we start our reservation off at – R69,50, thats if we purchase it from makro. The last time I checked at woolies, when the cashier asked me if I wanted a bag for my groceries that meant I was going to pay for it and not have it for free. If they had settled on my second recommendation which was a Gin & Tonic and then further a Tanqueray10 and tonic or help us a Hendriks and tonic would the expectation have been that this was for free too. My role on the floor is to guide and create a guest experience which is why a glass of bubbly, and a memorable sunset is so fitting. I appreciate that Makro is giving away great deals on bubbly but our margins are somewhat different to theirs and yes it was the Blanc de Blancs that they had and it was the 2001 vintage, where do you think our margins come in in the food and beverage industry, should we be giving it away at cost price? The reason for their meal being R600 each was that they had 4 courses with wine pairing not to mention canapes on arrival, with amuse bouche, pre dessert and madelaines all of which are free. Dax I refuse to be called a Con on a public website, we have worked more than hard to restore a building which was more than impossible to refurbish, and then work 20 hours a day everyday and achieve a remarkable percentage of wowed guests. Fasie Malherbe.
Hi Fasie and Dale
Thanks for your responses. Allow me to apologise for suggesting the champagne offering was purely to boost the tab. That’s my cynical side talking (not sure if I have another side).
You’re very right, a glass of bubbly is an excellent way to start a meal and I am quite partial to it myself. You are also correct in saying that your prices are not unreasonable. Considering I have paid R55 for the Graham Beck Brut at Caveau, R38 is a good price and R70 would be on the same scale.
I think the issue is more the transparency and the resulting perception of the guest. This, I think, is the theme of this post and resulting comment thread. I was passing on feedback that I received from a friend, and it seemed reasonable to me that they would be a little surprised to see an additional R140 on their bill.
Most people don’t know the difference between the various Graham Beck options, perhaps showing them the menu opened to the relevant page would assist in managing expectation?
As I mentioned, I was happy to pay R55 for a glass of Graham Beck Brut, but I chose it knowing the price.
Anyway, it’s not the end of the world. They loved the food and the venue. You’ve done an excellent job and the general feel is that The Roundhouse is improving all the time. I look forward to experiencing the creations of the new chef (to have the lamb or not, that is the question
)
Hi Dax,
Thank you very much for the response and feedback.
It really does assist in improving the offering.
We look forward to hosting you soon again.
Kind Regards,
Dale den Dulk
Back to this topic…
How would you like to be surprised with a bill of R720 for 2 glasses of champagne?
http://www.iol.co.za/general/other/lol_container.php?click_id=3027&art_id=vn20090119063127720C433702&set_id=40
Thanks for the link. I really do not think it is difficult for any establishment, including The Grande Roche, discreetly to indicate a price of an unlisted or “special” item. The idea that it’s an insult to be informed of the price? Try taking all the prices off the menu and see how quickly people ask.
I went to the butcher shop restaurant on nelson mandela square in sandton, and found the food to be the following (I ordered rib eye steak, lamb curry and rice, and ribs – all meals were takeout):
1) Rib eyes teak – bland and rubbery
2) Lamb curry – tastes like something a varsity student could’ve cooked up on a pan. Meaning tepid and not tasty at all.
3) Ribs – not bad, though some sections were a bit raw.
I don’t get it – all that space, but why can’t they pay more attention to how the food TASTES??? And then there was this one older red-faced manager guy – pompous, pouting and puffing around. Felt like he was kinda patronizing.
Still, I won’t be going back there again… exorbitant prices for middling food. No thanks
Like Riaan I definitely won’t be going back to Butcher Shop and Grill. Without doubt one of the most over rated and over priced restaurants in South Africa. I am sure it is totally targeted to "catch" the unsuspecting international tourist. Riaan described it so well.
I find the three-star rating of this restaurant mysterious. It’s not the best steak in town by any means, though it’s ranked highest (they don’t even offer dry-aging on all cuts) – but most of all, it has all the atmosphere of a grown-up Mike’s Kitchen. It’s fine, enjoyable even, but not the special experience that 3-star rating suggests.
Thanks for the opinion Jonah. Where would you suggest is the best steak to be found in Johannesburg?
Well, I’m actually a Capetonian who visits JHB from time to time, so take my sweeping pronouncements with a sprinkle of seawater. But I’ve enjoyed the steaks at The Local Grill in Parktown, where I appreciate the range of options available, including a chewy but tasty free-range sirloin.
In Cape Town, the best I’ve eaten was at Jardine – though I know that’s a different kind of restaurant altogether.
Totaly ripped off @ R480.00 for prawn starter at the childrens table – all starters @ R 40 -R70 on menu with main meals @ R120 – R140. The SQ price on prawn starter goes up to R480 ? It feels like we were ripped off and wont advise any body to go there ever.
In Joburg over this last weekend so we took the Gautrain to Sandton (yes its novel for us Capetonians) and had lunch at The Butcher Shop and Grill. Oyster starters dead and rubbery. Burger served on a stale bun but otherwise perfect. Fellow diners all said their steaks were good but not great. Service spot on. Wine selection pretty decent for up North.
The place looks very grimy and run down. Visit to the Mens revealed a waiter with his shirt off cleaning blood from what looked like an open wound. All in all a pretty average experience but not really average enough to warrant complaints.
The Butcher Shop and Grill is blatantly aimed at tourists. Steaks and wine are overpriced. The Grill House in the Firs of Rosebank offers a better value and more pleasant dining experience.
The Butcher Shop seems to be in the news currently. Might want to see the comments to an article I researched for WINE magazine on restaurants. Regards, Kim See:
http://www.winemag.co.za/article/are-you-a-diner-from-hell-read-these-checkpoints-to-be-sure-2010-08-25